Soulwax on Bloghouse, Going Out, and the Art of the Remix

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OK, let's get into what's going on today: Soulwax are obviously legends in the game no matter what they're up to, I've adored what they do since their early-2000s 2manyDJs guise, in recent years their DEEWEE label has also become a destination for arch, fascinating, and utterly pristine-sounding electronic music. That diamond-cut attention to detail, of course, extended to last fall's excellent All Systems Are Lying; a minute or two after that record dropped, I hopped on a call with brothers-in-arms David and Steph Dewaele to talk about their impressive career as well as a host of topics related to all things dance music. It was a highly enjoyable convo and I'm happy to present it to you today. Check it out:

This latest record sounds very much like the two of you, but also not quite like what you've done before. Tell me about the evolution of the Soulwax sound.
Steph: We're probably the worst people to ask. We're never aware of it. Whenever we make something, we think we've changed a bit, and then people go, "Oh, that's quintessential you guys." And we're like, "Really?"

David: For this record, if there's one thing we didn't really delve deep into, it was production. Even though it might sound different, we didn't have an ambition to do something that was based on the production. Our emphasis was more on the songwriting.

Walk me through the creative process when it comes to generating ideas. Is it about embracing a "first thought best thought" approach, or is it more deliberate?
David: It's a bit of both. It's really fast in the the beginning, and then sometimes we take our time to execute an idea that came in, like, 10 or 15 minutes. Usually, when people take a few weeks to work on something that's spontaneous, they might kill the idea. The challenge is to do it in a way where we don't do that. It's more about figuring out arrangements and and trying out sounds. It's not like we're ignorant, but the production side of it comes so easily to us that it doesn't feel like there's a huge effort there.

What about the lyrics?
Steph: What's been nice about this record is that, for people who are either from the UK or America who are native speaking English, they all seem to be really into the lyrics. A lot of it is stream-of-consciousness. There were things that we wrote down really fast and we tried to use as mantras. But a lot of themes came out that seemed to resonate with a lot of people. In a way, it's very nice, because you're like, "Wow, people think that we did it deliberately." But I think we were just picking up on what was going on in the world around us. I don't think Soulwax were ever overly political or personal, and in this one we opened that door a little bit more. There was so much horrible stuff happening around us that I think we were picking up on it without even noticing it.

Talk to me more about the horrible stuff, from your POV. Obviously, it's plentiful these days. I've spent a lot of time over the last year and a half watching a lot of Adam Curtis documentaries.
Steph: We love him. He's the best.

What he does, to me, is very instructive in terms of how historical patterns are always iterating. I've found it to be oddly comforting. You see series of events play out where you're like, "Well, this feels familiar."
Steph: I mean, this could be a seven-hour conversation. To go back to Adam Curtis, I do think we've always been influenced by what he did, especially with All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace. It's poetic how he uses found footage to show you a thread through history. But, like you're saying, it's not uncommon, whatever's happening. It's not something completely new. It seems to be history repeating itself—just in a different guise, and with different means.

We have so many friends living in America, and when we go there and play, you can see it changing. It opened a lot of people's eyes for the first time. Five years ago, there's a lot of people I would've never talked politics with in the U.S. that I do with now, because it's so it's so omnipresent and affects their lives or what they do as artists. We don't have the luxury anymore to escape it.

We see it with all the artists here in our studio as well. For them to go play in America, it costs so much money to try and get a visa—and not getting a visa because of their political views, those are things that are happening around us. But I do think the big challenges that we have—the climate, tech bros ruling the world—are for everyone in the world now. It's not just Belgium, or Europe, or America alone. We're all in the same sinking ship here.

The notion of not having the luxury to not care anymore is really fascinating to me. As an American, I've always kind of been like, "I don't think things are going great here in general." It's been very interesting over the last three or four years, to witness—especially after COVID—people finally waking up to the reality of life under the U.S. government. I sympathize, but I also get this feeling of frustration sometimes where I'm like, "You're just getting this now?"
Steph: Yeah. I also feel like COVID is a really interesting thing. In a way, it's a collective amnesia that we're having, because a lot of people don't even mention it. It's not even a thing. Whereas, for Dave and me, it forced us to be in one place for the first time in 20 years. Normally, we'd be playing every weekend or we'd go in between places. It was confrontational for everyone, I think—but I also feel like people don't really talk about it that much. And, like you're saying, there was a lot of stuff happening before COVID. But then it felt like, when we were opening up again, it was just turbo drive through everything—the good and the bad. But that luxury—that feeling of freedom to not be political in your poetry, your music, or your art—I do think that choice has gotten smaller and smaller.

How did it feel when you guys started playing shows again after things opened back up? What did you observe? I feel like there was this energy where everybody was like, "I can't wait to get out there again. I'm going to party. I'm going to be in public." And then I think people got out there and were like, "Wait, this feels weird. I'm not loving this."
David: All of a sudden, there was a new generation of kids where, if you've been inside for two or three years and you turn 18, you were 15 when it started. So there's a whole new generation, not only for our shows, but just in general.

There seems to be a slightly different function for going out now. We're old enough to remember just going out to meet someone. You'd maybe like the band or the DJ, but there would still be that potential to meet someone. Right now, it feels more like people are treating nightlife like a Broadway show. They're like, "I know exactly what I'm getting into. I'm getting my tickets, and it's less about debauchery and more about a particular DJ and the fact that I love what they do." That's very different from how we grew up.

I don't think it's specifically a generational thing—it's just that we're now accustomed to having every movie in existence to watch online. Every piece of music, every kind of cuisine—it's all accessible to us. So we expect, when we go out, that it's going to be worth it. That's slightly different than just going out and seeing whatever would happen, where you don't know when you're going to go home or where you're going to wake up—or who you're going to wake up with. That's just a very different mindset.

Steph: I'm just shooting from the hip here, but maybe what happened because of COVID is that—in French, they say "Take off your mask," and in a way, whatever's happening with Trump, the wars—everything that's going on—people, for the first time, are seeing how deviant and manipulative politics have been. The feeling of "You've only just noticed?"—I've had that feeling the last 20 years, a little bit. Somebody like Adam Curtis tries to show that those power structures have always been there. Maybe the last couple of years were very hard because we're being faced with the brutality and, sometimes, evilness of some people—and the way they want to go about getting what they want.

But the positive side of this, and I'm just going to go back to music now, is that whenever Dave and me go to America now, it is to play Making Time—which, if you look at the lineup, is pretty amazing. The people that we've always been hanging out with, some of them have maybe given up a little bit sometimes. But a lot of other ones have been looking for alternatives, and I do feel it's a very good time for this. Maybe COVID took away some of the pretense of some of these things.

There's a younger generation coming in, and I think it's now up to the people from our generation to show these kids what it was that we were attracted to—musically, artistically, or creatively. When we did Despacio at Portola in San Francisco—and when we did it in Miami—I could see all these young kids get into this weird sound system that James, Dave, and me came up with 15 years ago. You could see that, for them, it was a new thing.

David: What you're describing now—how it's true that America seems ready—

Steph: More than Europe.

David: Yes. that's a timing thing that would've happened regardless of COVID. There's a peak that we lived through in Europe—from the 2000s until maybe 2010— where there was this insane, positive energy in dance music. Weirdly, in the U.S. during that period, whenever we played, I always felt like America was going through the motions a little bit.

Steph: And then they supercharged it with EDM.

David: I don't want to put it bluntly, but it's almost as if they're 10 or 15 years behind, and the peak is happening now. For a whole generation now, Daft Punk is year zero. For us, that was not year zero. That was, like, year 18 or 19.

Steph: For people in Detroit, that was year 30.

David: It kind of feels like America, right now, is in that peak where you guys are so open to different things. EDM broke this mold, and out of all that shit came people who were just like, "Let's go and find out what the other stuff is," which is what we had in the late '90s and early 2000s. That feels like it's happening now in the U.S. to me.

Steph: Covid accelerated that, and I do think the politics have become so extreme that they've affected our lives. As creatives—as people who want to create art—you have to make your own place now.

David: Yes, you're right on a political level—but, I don't know if Trump hadn't been re-elected, if Despacio would have hit less hard.

Steph: That also sounds like a really bad T-shirt. [Laughs]

I mean, there has been this feeling here that reminds me very strongly of the 2000s—especially after 9/11, when the response in New York was, "Well, there's nothing else to do except go out and have a good time."
Steph: Honestly, that's when we started 2manyDJs and met [James Murphy]. We even lived in the Tribeca Grand for a while. New York was so important for us. And it is true, that a couple of months after 9/11, it felt like there was this whole new thing happening there. Whether it was the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, whatever James was doing, or the Strokes, there was a lot of stuff happening. We'd go to all these places, and in a way, some of these people are still my best friends.

What's your guys' level of familiarity with the term "indie sleaze"?
Steph: People keep telling us about it. If nobody would've told us, we wouldn't have been aware—but we are now.

Yeah, I don't think it's necessarily a real thing. It's kind of what we were talking about with regards to young people—and some older people—coming out of COVID and being like, "I need to let loose and be a little bit more hedonistic and debauched." But, also, you guys slotted in really nicely with what people were calling "bloghouse" at the time, and when younger people talk about "indie sleaze," I'm always like, "I think the term you're actually looking for is bloghouse."
Steph: I remember when Dave and me started playing as 2manyDJs in new york, We were playing the Smiths into some dance record, and then getting straight into Yeah Yeah Yeahs' "Art Star." I vividly remember people being like, "This is just not supposed to be happening. You're not supposed to do this." Stretch Armstrong was saying to David and me, "You're doing the same thing that was happening in hip-hop, but because you're indie kids, you're doing it with rock music."

I vividly remember going to Justine D.'s indie night. We'd walk in, and all these kids were singing along with the Strokes, the Smiths, and the Cure—and they were our people. Because we're from Ghent, we had all this forced history upon us from electronic music, which was bound to happen. But what you're talking about with bloghouse, It came also from music of those two worlds coming together. When James writes "Daft Punk's Playing at My House" or "Losing My Edge," the Rapture, all this stuff that was going on—it felt like we were all kindred spirits. We were trying to merge those two worlds, which were very separate. Dance music in America was very separate from the rock crowd. They wouldn't mix. You're a live band, you're a live band. You're a DJ, you're in a club.

David: I It felt like Europe was more open to it. And you have to bear in mind, when people started calling stuff "bloghouse," Steph and I had already gone through so many trends that people had attached onto us. People called us grunge, and then we were indie, and then it was electroclash. Whatever style we were grouped in with, it always felt like something that we were fine with if it happened—but it's not something we actively wanted to make an effort to be a part of.

It's probably what kept us going through all these years—we never really fit in anywhere right. That's something that helps, because when you think of us, or whatever our music has been throughout the years, I don't think people think of one specific thing. It might mean bloghouse to you, but for another person, they came in via the Balearic space rock band that we did.

Steph: That's four people. [Laughs]

David: For some people, it's remixes, and for some it's soundtrack work. For us, it's important never to get attached to one of those things. But if it's bloghouse for you, great.

You mentioned remixes, which you guys are fairly renowned for. Let's talk about the art of the remix.
Steph: It's underappreciated. In most cases, we've completely rewritten the song anyway. You just keep the vocal and make another thing. When I was a kid, I loved extended versions. When we started DJing, most of the remixes we did were because we needed stuff to play. We'd love a certain track, but we'd be like, "Damn, the dynamics are a bit weird, or the intro is a bit too short."

The idea of taking something and completely deconstructing it is something that we're very drawn to. Maybe that's in our DNA. We don't do that many remixes, but people still seem to ask us. We say "No" a lot, but whenever we need something for our set, or we hear something that we like doing, then it's fun to go into somebody else's work and to deconstruct it.

David: It's something we really love doing, but for it to happen, a lot of planets have to align. We're as happy or excited about it we find the idea, but the reason we do very few of them is because we're rarely in a fortunate position that it's something we really love doing. But it's also not what pays the rent. It's something we do only when we think there's a musical idea.

Are there any remixes from other artists that you hold in high esteem?
Steph: When Dare by the Human League came out, they made another record as the League Unlimited Orchestra, which was a remake of the whole album. That's the blueprint for a lot of stuff. When you asked the question, I was instantly thinking about Arthur Baker, who we got to know when we started 2manyDJs. We've been friends with him since. What I like about him is that he really embodied that culture of—even without having the machines that we all have—slicing and cutting the master tapes, making an acetate, and going to some New York club to see if people would dance to it. In a way, that's the whole purpose of the remix, for me: You make a version of that song that makes people even more inclined to dance to.

Arthur is such a character, and we definitely love him. He also was one of the very first people to notice us. For a lot of people at that point, when we met him, we were an indie rock band—but he completely understood that we were more than just that. We liked nothing better than talking to him about specific periods in his
life. He'd talk about him, Bobby Orlando, Jellybean—all of them being there.

Are you guys big movie watchers? What have you seen recently?
Steph: Dave's been to two.

David: I don't want to be negative.

Steph: No, let's hear it.

David: I'd rather shine a light on something that I like. Steph, keep talking.

Steph: No, no. You went to see the movies. I haven't been to the movie theater in a while.

David: So specifically, the one I think I was a bit disappointed in was Bugonia.

I saw that last weekend.
Steph: What did you think? I want to hear what Larry thinks.

I liked it quite a bit. I liked the performances in it a lot. The ending was a little deflating to me. I kind of wish it ended differently.
David: If the movie ended, like, 12 minutes early, it would've been a great film. It's the ending that ruined the whole thing for me.

Steph: Thanks for ruining it. [Laughs] You also Nouvelle Vague, the documentary.

David: It's not a documentary—it's a film like where they re-enact how they shot Breathless. It was fine.

Yeah, I'm not really that interested in that one, honestly. I feel like I don't need to see Linklater do that, but I am going to see it at some point. It just seems so uninteresting to me.
Steph: Did you see Paul Thomas Anderson's latest?

I did. Did you guys?
Steph: Yes, I loved it.

David: I enjoyed that one quite a bit.

Steph: But I wish I'd seen it in IMAX. That car scene in an IMAX theater must've been amazing.

I saw Die, My Love last weekend.
David: That was amazing.

Yeah, I loved it. I thought it was great.
Steph: Weirdly, our mom saw it.

David: Why weirdly? There's something amazing about our mom that everyone should know. There's a film festival in Ghent, and my mom has a pass, and she goes for 10 days and watches the craziest movies nice. It's amazing. She recommended that one to me!