Deem Spencer on Getting Less Poetic and Building a Career Foundation

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Let's get into today's installment: I really enjoyed Deem Spencer's last record adultSW!M back in 2023, and his new one Pain & the people around me finds the NYC rapper getting more personal and vulnerable than ever before, emphasizing his low-key style with a sense of directness that his prior works were clearly building up to. I hopped on the phone with Deem earlier this fall to talk about the album and his career in general, check it out:

How long did it take you to put this record together?
About one year. We started working on this last September.

Tell me about how the record represents you as an artist right now.
I'd say that this album is a renewal. I've been telling people that this feels like my first project compared to the other projects in my catalog—like we can start here on an official arrival.

What specifically about this record makes you say that?
I just find so much clarity in this project. A lot of my music in the past was more explorative. I experimented a lot more. This project is probably the least poetic in my discography. I'm just straight up saying how i feel, with a lot less metaphor. There's a lot less up for interpretation, it's just an honest account of where I am in life right now. As a music fan, I feel like this is the first time I listen back to a project I made, and it's not necessarily a feeling of pride as much as a genuine love for the music. I would've loved this music whether I made it or not.

When you were younger, what was some of the music that you immediately gravitated towards?
I always loved hip-hop as a kid—specifically, hit records. I wasn't a collector of music until around the time I started making music myself, which was when I was 15. That was the same time I got my first iPod, and the first artists I was really listening to were Eminem and Lil Wayne. Growing up, I used to watch 106 and Park with my mom, so I was well aware of whatever the popular music was.

Do you remember the first album you ever purchased?
Shoot, I know the first CD I ever bought. This was before I could even consider myself a fan of music for real, but I was 10 years old. I bought the Will Smith album Lost and Found.

Talk to me about the title of the new record.
I felt drawn to that title when it first came to me. On the last line of the album, I say, "I'm just a man with the reaper on me/ Just a man/ Nothing reminds me what I am like my pain and the people around me." It's a symbol of what grounds me and what gave me the material for these songs.

I want to go back to what you said about talking more directly and not more poetically on this new record. Why do you think that evolution in your writing is happening right now?
I reconnected to my artistic purpose while making this project. It helped me a lot to be clear, honest, and transparent. I'm talking about things on this album that I've addressed in the past, but the clarity in these songs required me to really exercise as a writer and reflect, "How do I feel about what's going on?" It's been a tough year for me—financially, spiritually. This last couple of years has been very trying, especially since my last album. So much has changed in my world and the people around me.

You're talking about something that is really hard for people to reach down inside and access. Your music has always had a level of vulnerability. I'm really interested in hearing you reflect on the act of being vulnerable as an artist. Is it something that comes naturally to you? Do you feel like there's risks involved?
It comes natural to me. I've always found honesty to be the most productive approach to communication and collaboration. It's easy for me to lean into what I'm dealing with, especially how I say it as a storyteller. I know how important it is to create or expand a narrative. A lot of these songs—a lot of the songs I've made throughout my career—there are people in my life who know exactly what I'm going through.

Sometimes, when other people creep into the writing, they can be like, "Why am I in it all of a sudden?" Is that something you've had to deal with in general?
Yeah, I've dealt with that in various ways throughout my journey. Sometimes I'll be very real. "Everybody Want Me But My Lover," I wrote that during a very sensitive patch in my relationship. I was very vulnerable. Saying "Everybody want me but my lover"—like, that's a crazy thing to say, and I could imagine that's crazy for my girl to hear me say. But these songs create opportunities to have conversations. One of the beautiful things about making and releasing a song is that your opinion gets heard. It's a lot different than conversationally making any sort of claim. To empower it in a song is a bold way to make any claim.

When you were younger, did you have a desire to be heard by the people around you that led to embracing art as a way of expression?
Yeah, I've always been very soft-spoken, fairly timid, and introverted. As I discovered that I have a gift for writing and a calling to perform, I knew that this would be very useful in me being able to shine and stand out amongst the rest of the world.

You mentioned going through a hard year in general. I'm curious if there's anything specific you went through that shaped the lyrical content on this record.
This year was very trying. Since the last album, I've dealt with a few evictions. I didn't really do any shows. The momentum slowed down significantly. It was a very confusing time for me, and it was the first time I released something with a label. I parted ways with my management team of many years, because I just wanted to bring it back to the basics and follow my own instincts to see if I could get things back in the right direction.

On top of that, I'm dealing with the label myself throughout this entire album process. No money's coming in, I'm in love, and it's not easy to be in a relationship when you're battling depression. You're trying to get shit in order. Addiction is something I don't talk about very much publicly, but I talk about it all on the album. I had no choice but to put it all on the table.

Let's talk more about your relationship with the music industry throughout your career thus far.
I'm developing a love-hate relationship with the music industry. It's very challenging in general to maintain your footing as an independent artist. But just as a musician, I don't see myself quitting. I do love putting out music, and I long for the opportunity to hit the road again. I really want to perform, which is my intention with this album. I wanted to make something that I could really move audiences with. That's where I want to place all my focus moving forward. If I'm able to take it back to the basics and just let my career be performance-focused, I feel like I can't lose.

But trying to play the numbers game—I think that's for the birds right now. I had a good conversation with Nigil, who started drink sum wtr, and he reminded me that growth isn't what's most necessary. It's all about connecting with the people who are already there. I completely agree with that, so I'm glad he reminded me about that, because that's how I want to approach my business moving forward. I need to rebuild my momentum, connect with the people and stay connected so that when we hit the road, we can make these lifelong connections and never lose that—because things can change. You're hot one year, and then you're not on it. I'm realizing that there's a lot more foundation to build.